MGS4 hayters/ MGS5 defenders (spoilers)

A place to discuss any Metal Gear games, please avoid or at least warn about spoilers.
Red Crasher
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:02 am

Re: MGS4 hayters/ MGS5 defenders (spoilers)

Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:28 am

The truest bittersweet beauty of MGS5 is that it lives up to its name; 'The Phantom Pain.'
A complete game, cohesive story, creative boss fights... these are missing, like the man himself, DHayter. True fans felt the sting of these things not being present - a real, if unintentional, phantom pain for us all.
The following is speculation - but it makes a great deal of sense; MGS4 and MGS5 were both unfinished when released.
I mean, in any game (and I'm pretty sure I've seen an interview where Kojima expresses this same sentiment, or someone attributes it to him) there will be things you want to add - given all the time in the world, you'll almost always find something you wished you could have added or improved with big projects like these. It's abundantly clear that MGS5 needed more time and effort before release (personally, I'd rather play the half-finished MGS5 than most other titles in recent years, but that's me); but why do I say MGS4 was unfinished also? Ignoring the fact that the release date was pushed back months and months repeatedly...
Pettrovich Madnar. Well, him and also most of chapter 5. Compare the Tanker chapter from MGS2, and Outer Haven level from MGS4 - you really think that was a complete/realized vision for what Outer Haven would have been if the dev team could have done what they wanted? Why did they add the upper areas & climbable/hangable ledges?
Nvm chapter 5 though - Pettrovich Madnar, that's the ticket.
This scientist character featured heavily in MG2: Solid Snake (which arguably has a better story than PhantomPain [:P] ) and is mentioned in MGS4's 3rd chapter - he's in Eastern Europe, and apparently saves Raiden's life after that wicked fight against the Gekko and Vamp in chapter 2. Such a cool opportunity to bring back an old character, and have someone new and interesting to talk to over the codec, right? Hells no. You don't even catch a glimpse of him.
Rose, Dr. Madnar, Raiden, Campbell, Naomi, Meryl, Drebin and Otacon - ALL should have had a spot on that codec menu. Instead we have a codec menu with enough space for eight or more names on it, and when do you even use it? Some of the content that is there is very impressive - but live camera feeds to the Colonel and Otacon vs a static/snow screen for Raiden - is it truly an homage to Cyborg Ninjas from MGS1 and 2, or did somebody go over budget on time & labour?

If my opinion matters - MGS4 is a fantastic game. MGS5 is about 66% of a fantastic game. Both needed something more to hit the sweet spot of Snake Eater or the Shadow Moses affair.

Also - if we are comparing boss fights, in MGS4 the fight vs Raging Raven is about as much fun as in MGS5 vs you-know-who on fire. VS Quiet is fun - but somehow not as much (imo) as The End or Crying Wolf (I'd say more fun than Sniper Wolf... but that was pretty great sniper action for PS1.) There's just no contest between Sahelanthropus and being able to actually pilot REX, though.
Phantom Pain... I still feel it.
tigerchitpile
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:09 am

Re: MGS4 hayters/ MGS5 defenders (spoilers)

Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:58 am

For the record I like both MGS4 and MGS5. For all intensive purposes, MGS4 feels like a finished game and rounds it out with a killer multiplayer that remains one of my favorite multiplayer experiences. There was never a point while I was playing when it felt unfinished and, as a matter of fact they tied up a lot of things very nicely.

MGS5 is definitely more than half finished, but it does feel unfinished. My only major complaint about MGS5 is that there was no Kingdom of Flies, and this makes the game feel unfinished. I have seen people chalk it up to Kojima wanting to make you feel the Phantom Pain, but that is unacceptable to me, as there are other things in the game that are clearly meant to make the player feel Phantom Pain and at least feel finished. As far as the twist, although it not anything ground breaking it does introduce you to a new protagonist Venom Snake, who I came to like through the story, and does some explaining of the events between MG1 ending and MG2 start. Gameplay-wise, MGS5 is just so much fun and the storyline is decent, making it a strong contender for my favorite MGS game. Unfortunately the gameplay does not lend itself to a MGO multiplayer that I would like to play.
Last edited by tigerchitpile on Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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MobiusOne
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:13 am

Re: MGS4 hayters/ MGS5 defenders (spoilers)

Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:03 am

Romulus2000 wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:47 am
MobiusOne wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:50 am
Romulus2000 wrote:
Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:32 pm


So from one statement you were able to come to that erroneous conclusion? You're a bright one.
That was clearly a joke comment. And if the games are both shit. What the fuck are you doing on this website . Saying the game is shit includes the multiplayer.

They were. Not my fault you like lackluster games.
I'm on this site to participate in MGO. Where do you see "SaveMGS4?"

You don't see people here referring to MGO as MGS4, do you, genius?

Fuck outta here.
Maybe if you elaborating on saying MGS4's story is shit instead of saying MGS4 is shitty as a whole. When you say the game is shit you also include MGO. Theres no other way around it. This site is called savemgo because MGS4 wasn't an online service that got shut down 5 years you fucking troglodyte. Instead of shitposting both games are shit you could of elaborated on why you think that but no. I made this for discussion on where MGS succeeds and where it fails. I want good discussion. Not a shitposter who adds nothing to the conversation.
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MobiusOne
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:13 am

Re: MGS4 hayters/ MGS5 defenders (spoilers)

Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:23 am

Red Crasher wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:28 am
The truest bittersweet beauty of MGS5 is that it lives up to its name; 'The Phantom Pain.'
A complete game, cohesive story, creative boss fights... these are missing, like the man himself, DHayter. True fans felt the sting of these things not being present - a real, if unintentional, phantom pain for us all.
The following is speculation - but it makes a great deal of sense; MGS4 and MGS5 were both unfinished when released.
I mean, in any game (and I'm pretty sure I've seen an interview where Kojima expresses this same sentiment, or someone attributes it to him) there will be things you want to add - given all the time in the world, you'll almost always find something you wished you could have added or improved with big projects like these. It's abundantly clear that MGS5 needed more time and effort before release (personally, I'd rather play the half-finished MGS5 than most other titles in recent years, but that's me); but why do I say MGS4 was unfinished also? Ignoring the fact that the release date was pushed back months and months repeatedly...
Pettrovich Madnar. Well, him and also most of chapter 5. Compare the Tanker chapter from MGS2, and Outer Haven level from MGS4 - you really think that was a complete/realized vision for what Outer Haven would have been if the dev team could have done what they wanted? Why did they add the upper areas & climbable/hangable ledges?
Nvm chapter 5 though - Pettrovich Madnar, that's the ticket.
This scientist character featured heavily in MG2: Solid Snake (which arguably has a better story than PhantomPain [:P] ) and is mentioned in MGS4's 3rd chapter - he's in Eastern Europe, and apparently saves Raiden's life after that wicked fight against the Gekko and Vamp in chapter 2. Such a cool opportunity to bring back an old character, and have someone new and interesting to talk to over the codec, right? Hells no. You don't even catch a glimpse of him.
Rose, Dr. Madnar, Raiden, Campbell, Naomi, Meryl, Drebin and Otacon - ALL should have had a spot on that codec menu. Instead we have a codec menu with enough space for eight or more names on it, and when do you even use it? Some of the content that is there is very impressive - but live camera feeds to the Colonel and Otacon vs a static/snow screen for Raiden - is it truly an homage to Cyborg Ninjas from MGS1 and 2, or did somebody go over budget on time & labour?

If my opinion matters - MGS4 is a fantastic game. MGS5 is about 66% of a fantastic game. Both needed something more to hit the sweet spot of Snake Eater or the Shadow Moses affair.

Also - if we are comparing boss fights, in MGS. 4 the fight vs Raging Raven is about as much fun as in MGS5 vs you-know-who on fire. VS Quiet is fun - but somehow not as much (imo) as The End or Crying Wolf (I'd say more fun than Sniper Wolf... but that was pretty great sniper action for PS1.) There's just no contest between Sahelanthropus and being able to actually pilot REX, though.
Phantom Pain... I still feel it.
I appreciate your opinion. This forum i started does have me a bit biased towards MGS4. But i see what you mean. MGS4 is not perfect and it definitely has its flaws. Some things could have been better. But as it stands MGS4 was a sequel we didn't need but wanted. As a way to end the series it did pretty damn well. MGS5 just seems to be there just for the sake of being there as a next Prime Minister Gen MGS game. Both titles are still great compared to most triple A games, but MGS4 just seemed like it went out with a bang in my opinion.
stafeimgo2
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:29 pm

Re: MGS4 hayters/ MGS5 defenders (spoilers)

Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:22 am

MGS5 is not MGS. I did not even proshl it to the end. I was one and the same picture and landscaped. A multiplayer generally silent. At MGS4 it all ended
Romulus2000
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:14 pm

Re: MGS4 hayters/ MGS5 defenders (spoilers)

Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:53 pm

MobiusOne wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:03 am
Romulus2000 wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:47 am
MobiusOne wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:50 am


That was clearly a joke comment. And if the games are both shit. What the fuck are you doing on this website . Saying the game is shit includes the multiplayer.

They were. Not my fault you like lackluster games.
I'm on this site to participate in MGO. Where do you see "SaveMGS4?"

You don't see people here referring to MGO as MGS4, do you, genius?

Fuck outta here.
Maybe if you elaborating on saying MGS4's story is shit instead of saying MGS4 is shitty as a whole. When you say the game is shit you also include MGO. Theres no other way around it. This site is called savemgo because MGS4 wasn't an online service that got shut down 5 years you fucking troglodyte. Instead of shitposting both games are shit you could of elaborated on why you think that but no. I made this for discussion on where MGS succeeds and where it fails. I want good discussion. Not a shitposter who adds nothing to the conversation.
"Maybe if you elaborating on saying MGS4's story is shit instead of saying MGS4 is shitty as a whole. When you say the game is shit you also include MGO. Theres no other way around it. This site is called savemgo because MGS4 wasn't an online service that got shut down 5 years you fucking troglodyte. "

You're delusional to think MGO and MGS4 are to be considered the same.
You mean the site is referring to a component of MGS4, not MGS4 itself because MGO and MGS4 are not the same thing?
Thanks for confirming what I said earlier. You should add yourself to the shitposter list.
If you need me to dumb it down for you, let me know.
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SinisterLion
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:37 am

Re: MGS4 hayters/ MGS5 defenders (spoilers)

Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:14 am

I like both games.

MGS4, the gameplay was soild, improving on the slightly clunky and now very outdated controls of MGS3. The story may not of made perfect sense is you haven't played all the games. I've not played MG, MG2, MGS1 or MGS2, so this was somewhat the case for me. I was still able to enjoy it, epic cutscenes included, despite not having full knowledge of the lore.

MGS5, again, the gameplay was solid. The controls somehow get even better than 4, and in my opinion are the best controls of the series. No more infinite pockets, being able to carry every weapon in the game. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing, but it works.
The Skulls... well, a shadow of the characterful bosses from previous games, but I think should still be considered bosses nonetheless. First time I saw these guys I was like, 'Oh sheeeeeet!'
Using vehicles and having you own personal chopper is cool.
Having to play the same missions again and again for task completion and the S rank is a bit draining, but I suppose it adds to replay value.
FOB aspect is cool, being able to strike other players and take your revenge when attacked. Also adds considerably to replay value.
Story, I thought was good. Maybe not on a par with previous titles, but still good.
May lack character development, sure, but maybe that makes way for the player to form their own story with the characters, as we are Big Boss, and no two play thoughs will be the same. Everyone will surely have a different approach and tactics.
I still play MGS5, having already sunk 200+ hours into it. Still developing those damn ass FOBs! Kinda given up on platinum though, S ranking all missions and completing all mission tasks is more than I am willing to do...
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MobiusOne
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:13 am

Re: MGS4 hayters/ MGS5 defenders (spoilers)

Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:14 am

SinisterLion wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:14 am
I like both games.

MGS4, the gameplay was soild, improving on the slightly clunky and now very outdated controls of MGS3. The story may not of made perfect sense is you haven't played all the games. I've not played MG, MG2, MGS1 or MGS2, so this was somewhat the case for me. I was still able to enjoy it, epic cutscenes included, despite not having full knowledge of the lore.

MGS5, again, the gameplay was solid. The controls somehow get even better than 4, and in my opinion are the best controls of the series. No more infinite pockets, being able to carry every weapon in the game. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing, but it works.
The Skulls... well, a shadow of the characterful bosses from previous games, but I think should still be considered bosses nonetheless. First time I saw these guys I was like, 'Oh sheeeeeet!'
Using vehicles and having you own personal chopper is cool.
Having to play the same missions again and again for task completion and the S rank is a bit draining, but I suppose it adds to replay value.
FOB aspect is cool, being able to strike other players and take your revenge when attacked. Also adds considerably to replay value.
Story, I thought was good. Maybe not on a par with previous titles, but still good.
May lack character development, sure, but maybe that makes way for the player to form their own story with the characters, as we are Big Boss, and no two play thoughs will be the same. Everyone will surely have a different approach and tactics.
I still play MGS5, having already sunk 200+ hours into it. Still developing those damn ass FOBs! Kinda given up on platinum though, S ranking all missions and completing all mission tasks is more than I am willing to do...
Again I might hate on MGS5 bit, but truth be told MGS5 is a solid game. Better than most Triple A games nowadays. Im looking at it from a Metal Gear perspective. Where I think it fails. But as a Game it definitely succeeded. I sunk over 100 hours in that game. The game was fun as hell. I don't outright hate hate it, but im just examining it from my huge fandom of the past games having large expectations of 5. Which were inevitably let down. But it still has something to offer.
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Junkhead_
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Re: MGS4 hayters/ MGS5 defenders (spoilers)

Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:18 am

for me, MGSV / GZ / PW shouldn't even count as cannon mgs. 1 - 4 were always the most nostalgic, as well as captivating and greatly designed for what it was. They were crafted with much more effort. MGO3 was a huge disappointment, don't plan on every playing that or mgsv again, want a free copy of day one edition MGSV!! HMU!

but yeah, the first 10 missions or so in mgsv were basically an indicator of how the game is just "not" old school "mgs" but moreso, a lackluster call of duty battlefield red dead redemption 3rd person shooter type of copy, except with less cutscenes and story....

lol
~D.B.A.~
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tigerchitpile
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:09 am

Re: MGS4 hayters/ MGS5 defenders (spoilers)

Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:09 am

MightyRavendark wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:18 am
for me, MGSV / GZ / PW shouldn't even count as cannon mgs. 1 - 4 were always the most nostalgic, as well as captivating and greatly designed for what it was. They were crafted with much more effort. MGO3 was a huge disappointment, don't plan on every playing that or mgsv again, want a free copy of day one edition MGSV!! HMU!

but yeah, the first 10 missions or so in mgsv were basically an indicator of how the game is just "not" old school "mgs" but moreso, a lackluster call of duty battlefield red dead redemption 3rd person shooter type of copy, except with less cutscenes and story....

lol
Calling MGS5 a copy of all those is definitely selling it short. There hasn't been another game that I have played in awhile that has even come close to MGS5. It has its flaws, but its definitely an awesome game. I agree with you on MGO3 as the gameplay doesn't lend itself to an online game that is entertaining to me, but FOB is actually pretty fun, kind of reminiscent of MGS2.

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